tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post973733100209091657..comments2023-08-01T01:15:40.086-07:00Comments on Northwest History: Open Letter to My Students: No, You Cannot be a ProfessorLarry Cebulahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16798046652983001155noreply@blogger.comBlogger109125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-43411188415048499062017-04-26T11:33:11.979-07:002017-04-26T11:33:11.979-07:00https://www.historians.org/publications-and-direct...<br />https://www.historians.org/publications-and-directories/perspectives-on-history/april-2017/history-is-not-a-useless-major-fighting-myths-with-data#.WPbNc7zcKJk.twitter<br /><br />Apparently the data does support the conclusion that, “no, you cannot be a professor.” Good work Larry. 4.5 percent of history majors work as post-secondary educators and .5 work as museum professionals. These are important if not unsurprising findings. I still don’t tell all my upper level students the bad news, but I tell 100% of my advisees. Now if only we could get the AHA to publish a warning a la tobacco companies on the front cover of their "Directory of Graduate Programs in History" so that they wouldn't have to go back and undo the damage with articles in "Perspectives." <br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12704328967415810787noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-11539350215207900042016-12-10T05:58:37.824-08:002016-12-10T05:58:37.824-08:00On the public history front, it's possible to ...On the public history front, it's possible to build a career as an expert witness, but you need a Ph.D., an appropriate subject area, and the right personality. I'm an historian of technology specializing in engineering standards and building codes. You will spend a lot of time "teaching"--lawyers appreciate but don't really understand historical methodology. Hourly rates are typically in the hundreds of dollars, but you have to send invoices, then wait for payment, plus it takes time to get established.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02156441097748555219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-52022104685637270742016-10-01T04:03:22.691-07:002016-10-01T04:03:22.691-07:00This is the honest truth--there is a chance things...This is the honest truth--there is a chance things can turn out differently, and we can work toward making those changes, but at this point this is a remarkably realistic assessment.<br /> <a href="http://e-luk.co.uk" rel="nofollow">e-luk draw</a><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07738055572349628866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-65289365148631291042016-08-24T18:30:44.620-07:002016-08-24T18:30:44.620-07:00Rose, What are you talking about?!?! Have you ever...Rose, What are you talking about?!?! Have you ever had a job as an adjunct? I don't think you have. You say the pay is between $45 and $48 dollars an hour. Well, that may be based on student contact hours, but it does not take into account everything else you do to teach that class. It does not cover your prep for lectures, your posting online class materials, grading tests, reporting etc etc.. Add it all up and you really get paid anywhere between $4 to $10 bucks an hour. And you do know that you don't get paid per hour, like punching a clock? Maybe it's better than working at home depot, but you don't need a PhD to work at home depot. Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13365847065969805032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-29938101032651834732016-08-24T18:21:17.475-07:002016-08-24T18:21:17.475-07:00I have to stay I have never read anything so true ...I have to stay I have never read anything so true in my life... and I should know because I am living out this warning. I finished by PhD in History in 2008 and have had zero interviews for fulltime teaching positions. Oh, but I have had more than enough to work as an adjunct... It sucks.. trust me it really sucks!!! I wish, oh God I wish I could go back in time and stop the younger me from ever considering a career in history. Yes I was an idiot, I thought I could do it... I could have looked at job openings and the number of new PhDs and could have done the math... but I didn't. But I also blame all these universities that continue to churn out PhD after PhD knowing that they will never have the opportunity to actually fulfill their dreams. The two organizations that claim to speak for historians, the OAH and AHA are sad examples of professional organizations. They do nothing to actually help what is happening in the profession. They are like the AAUP have have no teeth. From here on out lets call them social organizations where old buddies meet up every year to read their latest research paper and slap each other on the back. <br /><br />I took one more adjunct job this semester.. after this I am done! No more! No more bowing to administrators who micromanage, pay sub par wages and then have the nerve to tell me what and how to teach it. I'm not treated like a professional with knowledge and background, but like a migrant worker hired to pick fruit. When the trees are empty you will be sent packing. For the first time ever in my adjunct history I am being paid even less than the regular adjunct rate. Schools have figured a way to pay even less by giving teachers low enrolled classes and then pay them a pay-per-student rate. <br /><br />So... bottom line - don't do it! Just don't do it! If anyone needs someone to cut their grass just let me know..Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13365847065969805032noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-531275408694068062016-07-31T13:51:04.639-07:002016-07-31T13:51:04.639-07:00Your article is very interesting, and it speaks to...Your article is very interesting, and it speaks to the current and continuing state of careers in higher education. I am currently preparing for what I hope to be a fine career in higher education. I want my PhD, and I want to be a professor. However, I am not going blindly forward without any idea that what I want may not actually come to true. I am finishing up an M.A program with a focus in teaching secondary social studies. I am also obtaining a certification in teaching English as a secondary/foreign language. After this is complete, I am going to work on an M.A in history (focused on pre-doctoral studies). <br /><br />Hopefully, the job market will improve, though, I am not preparing for the best. As I said, I want to be a professor, but I am in touch with the reality that it may not happen. I do want to mention that I my choice to study secondary social studies education was challenged in much the same way that your article pushes the realities of higher education. I chose to ignore the warnings, and now (at least in my state) the job market for social studies in MS/HS is better than it has been in decades. That is why I am preparing for the worst, keeping my options open, and hoping for the best. By my graduation, I will be qualified to teach any social studies course at the secondary level, any secondary education course at the community college level, and ESL/EFL classes. I also have wide ranging experiences in higher education (i.e. student affairs). I participate in professions that I am both well-versed, competent, and passionate about. Still, my greatest desire is to become an academic (to publish, to work in institutes of higher education, if possible, and to work in the field I love). <br /><br />Many students who say they want to be a professor (at lease in my experience) do not know the realities of the profession. I have been lucky in that respect. My professors have encouraged me to pursue my passion, while preparing me for the realities of the job market. I heed your warnings, and I truly thank you for writing this piece. It is a great resource for those facing the challenges I face. After reading, I felt compelled to thank you for your comments.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08042177323585462072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-6929728453489178752016-07-31T13:49:47.397-07:002016-07-31T13:49:47.397-07:00Your article is very interesting, and it speaks to...Your article is very interesting, and it speaks to the current and continuing state of careers in higher education. I am currently preparing for what I hope to be a fine career in higher education. I want my PhD, and I want to be a professor. However, I am not going blindly forward without any idea that what I want may not actually come to true. I am finishing up an M.A program with a focus in teaching secondary social studies. I am also obtaining a certification in teaching English as a secondary/foreign language. After this is complete, I am going to work on an M.A in history (focused on pre-doctoral studies). <br /><br />Hopefully, the job market will improve, though, I am not preparing for the best. As I said, I want to be a professor, but I am in touch with the reality that it may not happen. I do want to mention that I my choice to study secondary social studies education was challenged in much the same way that your article pushes the realities of higher education. I chose to ignore the warnings, and now (at least in my state) the job market for social studies in MS/HS is better than it has been in decades. That is why I am preparing for the worst, keeping my options open, and hoping for the best. By my graduation, I will be qualified to teach any social studies course at the secondary level, any secondary education course at the community college level, and ESL/EFL classes. I also have wide ranging experiences in higher education (i.e. student affairs). I participate in professions that I am both well-versed, competent, and passionate about. Still, my greatest desire is to become an academic (to publish, to work in institutes of higher education, if possible, and to work in the field I love). <br /><br />Many students who say they want to be a professor (at lease in my experience) do not know the realities of the profession. I have been lucky in that respect. My professors have encouraged me to pursue my passion, while preparing me for the realities of the job market. I heed your warnings, and I truly thank you for writing this piece. It is a great resource for those facing the challenges I face. After reading, I felt compelled to thank you for your comments.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08042177323585462072noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-68344373955614950982016-07-10T16:56:30.677-07:002016-07-10T16:56:30.677-07:00So many people will get a job as Adjunct Faculty. ...So many people will get a job as Adjunct Faculty. But even working that will be more than what I was making full time as an entry level employee elsewhere. Most entry level jobs pay measly, so working part-time teaching as adjunct faculty, if you land 2 or 3 of those gigs, you can in fact make a decent living. <br />I entered the work force at 18, began as a server, moved into customer service, moved into financial services, auditing, and eventually the manager of a sales team. My salary was not comparable to my cousin who got a job as adjunct faculty, teaching 3 classes, 3 days a week. <br />After 10 years studying on and off, finishing at the age of 29, rather than keep trying to move up in the business world, I decided to pursue a Masters degree in History. <br />I doe eyed told my History professors that I would like to continue on towards an eventual PhD. <br />I know I will never obtain a tenure position, and frankly I don't want that responsibility. Adjunct Faculty is good enough for me, teaching 3 or 4 classes as a part-time gig is a much better salary than working 45 hours a week as a sales manager. The university I obtained my bachelor's at pays $48 an hour for adjunct faculty, the community college down the street from my house $45 for the same job. There are so many universities and community colleges with online programs looking for adjunct faculty that it isn't impossible to find a position in academia - it's just a matter of being okay with teaching 3 or 4 classes at 3 or 4 different schools. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03697391257462938133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-28394824444567055862016-05-24T14:22:41.135-07:002016-05-24T14:22:41.135-07:00Thank you so much for this article. I put my educa...Thank you so much for this article. I put my educational career on hold 10 years ago because of a health situation and have recently been contemplating returning to finish my graduate degree. I currently work in the textbook industry but not in content creation.<br /><br />My dream since Junior High has always been to teach history at the high ed level but, your article and several others have persuaded me that leaving a 50K job to fulfill my teenage dream might not be the most sound financial decision. Is it possible to have a midlife crisis at 33? Thanks again for the sound advice!IntrovertExcavatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01862862682168041188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-50257789559320578322016-04-12T08:26:58.550-07:002016-04-12T08:26:58.550-07:00You are welcome, Jordan. I am always surprised at ...You are welcome, Jordan. I am always surprised at the longevity of this one post!Larry Cebulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798046652983001155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-68990409361423093712016-04-04T15:16:24.860-07:002016-04-04T15:16:24.860-07:00Thank you for crushing my dreams. I mean that lite...Thank you for crushing my dreams. I mean that literally. I want to thank you for telling me not to be optimistic about getting a job as a proffesser and helping to guide my focus into more realistic channels. I hate children's media today, with their "follow your dreams" and "you can be whatever you want to be". However, while I am in a different career (still involving history) if the opportunity presents itself, on the EXTREME of chance that it does, I'm going for it. Why not? So thank you for writing this article, your article both projected wittiness and logic. Reminds me of Dennis Prager... Sorry about that, lost my train of thought. Anyways, you have my thanks.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12651022642238816671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-23370003938613557852015-10-11T19:20:52.143-07:002015-10-11T19:20:52.143-07:00I'm studying history in university in Canada a...I'm studying history in university in Canada as a mature student. The first comment I get from people is: "Oh, you want to teach?" I can't think of something worse for me. I'd hate teaching. I never want to do that. Loving history and wanting to teach it are unrelated to me. When I admit, I'm not sure what I want to do with a history degree is met with skepticism. That I'm wasting money. I wouldn't mind working in business or politics or law. So long as no one wants me to teach. <br /><br />Reading this post, I had no idea so many people go into history to teach. motherinTorontohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05979899274372785536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-15727892261777943282015-08-12T14:48:02.335-07:002015-08-12T14:48:02.335-07:00Articles like this by people like Prof Cebula and ...Articles like this by people like Prof Cebula and the more famous ones by Pannapacker have had an effect. From what I hear, many history PhD programs have considerably reduced their acceptance rates. That will hopefully improve things over time.<br /><br />There are glass half-empty and half-full ways to look at it. Certainly when I was going through grad school, the state of the job market put us all into a strange atmosphere that combined competitiveness with self-loathing and an extreme pessimism. <br /><br />I found a full-time history teaching gig, at a community college, my first year out. Technically it wasn't my first year, it was my third, but it was the first year I applied out of state. For two years I slogged through adjunct-hood shaking my first at the world that I did not get one of the handful of openings that came up in my area. The secret seemed to be expanding the range in more ways than one. Admittedly, community colleges were not first on my list and it doesn't pay what I thought I'd get paid when I was younger but it's turned out to be a pretty decent job. I landed the position a year after Prof Cebula orginally wrote this article - believe me we were ALL deep into this kind of thinking in my cohort.<br /><br />Now that I've been on the other side of hiring several times - I'm surprised that we don't get more PhD applicants. Actually the AHA's stats showed that less than 10% of history PhDs work at community colleges. Not sure why that is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-57545274997760152342015-01-05T21:15:02.967-08:002015-01-05T21:15:02.967-08:00"That is not to say that you cannot work with..."That is not to say that you cannot work with history. There are some great jobs in public history--working for local government, or federal agencies, or museums, or as an independent contractor, or a hundred other things. These jobs are also competitive and hard to break into, but there are more of them and you only need an MA."<br /><br />No there aren't. After almost a decade of trying to find a gig there that's more than '$10/hr for 3 months,' I can attest that Public History is full too - except the marketing & developing departments of museums, that is. We can all bring in money for history institutions, just not actually do history work for them…Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10058171030261812885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-77557891373518776392014-12-28T11:31:06.636-08:002014-12-28T11:31:06.636-08:00Pembroke: Pursuing a grad degree in medieval histo...Pembroke: Pursuing a grad degree in medieval history is a terrible idea, particularly if you do not already have a pretty substantial language base. Your database question relates to what is called digital history (or more broadly, the digital humanities). There are some jobs, you will need a skill set with one foot in the computer science world. See also archives and digital archivists.Larry Cebulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798046652983001155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-49334728090428111712014-12-27T19:20:43.398-08:002014-12-27T19:20:43.398-08:00Hello, I was thinking about getting an MA or PhD i...Hello, I was thinking about getting an MA or PhD in medieval history but wasn't sure I can get hired anywhere when I'm done - already in my 40s. Job market is no good anywhere. After years of Cancer Research I stayed home with kids for a year and a half (twins!) and could not return to the job due to massive outsourcing. Got a Nursing degree, worked for 3 years until the second back injury. What's now? Do not have PhD to teach Biology or MSN to teach Nursing. <br />I have always loved history, memoirs and biographies. After Richard III remains were fond I've got interested in the story of the unjustifiably maligned king and started to read more. 2.5 months later people started asking ME what I'd recommend to read on the subject. Fascinating reading, wish I'd known Latin or at least French good enough to read the original manuscripts (I went way past the War of Roses long time ago). Another forgotten great king is King Aethelstan, who had managed to really unify all the Britain, but is not nearly as well known as King Alfred the Great. But here I'd probablyneed to to know either old English or even Welsh. <br />Anyway, is there any way to make a living, let's say by creating databases or converting old manuscripts into digital files? We are currently writing a children's book about Richard III with my kids - for their school. I guess it is even more ridiculous question whether writing books could be a full time (or even a part-time) job? <br /><br />Will appreciate an answer.Pembrokehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10533669264345110946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-54666500610203586152014-10-21T11:36:51.031-07:002014-10-21T11:36:51.031-07:00Best of luck to you, Nilly.Best of luck to you, Nilly.Larry Cebulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798046652983001155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-10131536832751255122014-10-18T09:28:36.200-07:002014-10-18T09:28:36.200-07:00637Okay, then, thank you. If this is the case the...637Okay, then, thank you. If this is the case then that means there will be no more professors in about 20+ years and colleges will start to get knocked down. Thanks for your fantastic, close-minded, discouraging insight!<br /><br />With much love,<br />Someone who plans to become a creative writing professorAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-2011487848310830732014-09-09T20:40:05.954-07:002014-09-09T20:40:05.954-07:00Every commenter including the author of this blog ...Every commenter including the author of this blog should listen to you. You are the first and only to point out the flawed reasoning. Philosophy major?<br /><br />If obtaining PH.D.s and professorships really are based on merit, then I really hope you have one/both. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14041347661837762681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-36498856292901390572014-07-15T19:21:17.940-07:002014-07-15T19:21:17.940-07:00This holds true for your Ed.D. as well! I worked a...This holds true for your Ed.D. as well! I worked a full time job (with two little children) and earned my Ed.D. I am currently teaching middle school. I have applied to over ten counties in the state of Georgia for administrative positions and have only had two interviews. I have been named "Teacher of the Year", have wonderful recommendations, etc., but still no job. You are right in saying that it's like winning the lottery. There are so few slots to fill and so many amazing candidates! I wish that someone had told me sooner. Shanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06631679092842064431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-11110356540351584402014-06-13T15:07:45.783-07:002014-06-13T15:07:45.783-07:00Miriam, thank you for your perspective. You are ex...Miriam, thank you for your perspective. You are exactly the lottery winner I refereed to in the post. Congratulations!Larry Cebulahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16798046652983001155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-91511754427175525422014-04-12T20:18:11.551-07:002014-04-12T20:18:11.551-07:00This is an old blog post, I see, but I can't r...This is an old blog post, I see, but I can't resist commenting. If you're committed and passionate about your proposed field of study, and you want to get a Ph.D., I see no reason not to try. I did mine at at Yale, which paid my tuition and living expenses for 7 years, and where I had the time of my life, met friends I will always cherish, and met and married my husband of 20 years. Yes, the job market is brutal. But there are jobs other than tenure track and adjunct positions. Yale and many other colleges offer full-time lectureships which start with 3-year contracts, and give you the opportunity to sign on for good after 6 years. These positions stress teaching over scholarship, and are exactly what many Ph.D.'s are looking for anyway. Not all of us want to be a famous historian or literary critic. I left Yale with zero debt and returned several years later to take a job there, once my little ones were in school. It was the perfect job for a working mother, and though I have moved on since then, I have no regrets about finishing the Ph.D., even when I knew the chances of getting a tenure track job were slim. I might add, though, that every single one of my friends who stuck it out (translation: finished the dissertation) eventually found a full time job at a college or university. There are some jobs out there. There's no reason why you, the prospective Ph.D. candidate, can't be one of the lucky ones.kathleen.miryamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11575900797277691475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-7082288244004307742014-04-10T02:25:41.258-07:002014-04-10T02:25:41.258-07:00To the original poster, I am an undergrad at a lib...To the original poster, I am an undergrad at a liberal arts institution in South Carolina. My professors, though initially encouraging me to pursue something else than an academic degree, have noted my stubbornness and have given me great advice on how to find a job as a professor. Nothing is impossible, especially if you think you have a calling to do something. It may take years of odd jobs and failed opportunities to get there. But what made you so special to get the job that others can't have? Very elitist. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-56019728668616442582013-12-13T01:28:17.258-08:002013-12-13T01:28:17.258-08:00It's true, sadly. My mother holds a PHD and sh...It's true, sadly. My mother holds a PHD and she hasnt had a job in close to nine years; No one will hire her after they cut her and a dozen others. It's sad. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3533010775907799154.post-33176657305741461852013-11-08T17:30:40.912-08:002013-11-08T17:30:40.912-08:00I am surprised by the word vomit put forth by read...I am surprised by the word vomit put forth by readers who failed to read the post's title, let alone its body. I am currently a grad student, with no intentions of pursuing a doctorate. I'm amused by how many people seem offended by the tone of my "No," when they ask me if I'm going to teach. It's not because teaching isn't a noble profession, or that I wouldn't enjoy it. If I were to achieve a doctorate, I'd expect more job security and better benefits than the low-level bank job I left in order to go back to school. Even now, some of my favorite professors are "part time", and likely to remain so until they give up on academia and hunt for a position in another sector. I expected something different, because I'm studying science...but it's the same as history, apparently.Malaprophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12141705770110995328noreply@blogger.com